“ These appliances will be banned in southern California. There’s a new environmental regulation by the South Coast AQMD (Air Quality Management District) and it has been the talk of the town…”
I think your assumptions regarding replacement costs and compliance are underestimated
First, no consideration about electric wiring routing or (much worse) an additional circuit.
Second, SoCal Kommisars banning sales of gas water heaters just adds to the underground market. A substantial number of minor home improvements are already done off the books with zero permits by "my guy". You really think, when faced with a 1.25x to 2x cost increase by going electric, that trend won't accelerate?
I guess pre sale inspections could deter illegal gas heaters installed post-ban. If inspectors know what to look for.
And don't discount the Feds (aka Trump) trying to stomp this out with a broad reading of Energy Act of 1975. This may not work, and I think federal oversight in this regard are idiotic, but the <Ctrl>left built this enforcement hammer. Expect Trump to swing it with glee.
I don’t understand how you can say electric is more efficient, especially in California, where electricity prices are almost the highest in the entire nation, at around $.30-$.40 per kilowatt hour. I asked Grok and it did a detailed analysis and here are the results
Conclusion
• Water Heaters: Gas water heaters (tankless: 46,632 BTU/, tank: 36,269 BTU/) outperform heat pump water heaters (36,393 BTU/) and electric resistance (10,803 BTU/). Tankless gas is the most cost-effective, though heat pump water heaters are competitive due to high COP (3.2) in Southern California’s warm climate.
• Furnaces/Heat Pumps: Gas furnaces (49,223 BTU/) deliver more BTU per dollar than heat pumps (36,393 BTU/), driven by high electricity costs ($0.30/kWh) despite heat pumps’ high COP (3.2).
• Recommendation: Gas systems (tankless water heaters, furnaces) are the most cost-effective for BTU per dollar in Southern California at $0.30/kWh and $1.93/therm. Heat pump water heaters are viable for their near-parity with gas tanks and environmental benefits. Heat pumps for space heating are less cost-effective but offer cooling, critical in Southern California, and may become competitive with higher gas prices (e.g., $2.50/therm) or rebates. Use local utility rates (e.g., https://www.sce.com, https://www.socalgas.com) and calculators like TECH Clean California (https://
I think your assumptions regarding replacement costs and compliance are underestimated
First, no consideration about electric wiring routing or (much worse) an additional circuit.
Second, SoCal Kommisars banning sales of gas water heaters just adds to the underground market. A substantial number of minor home improvements are already done off the books with zero permits by "my guy". You really think, when faced with a 1.25x to 2x cost increase by going electric, that trend won't accelerate?
I guess pre sale inspections could deter illegal gas heaters installed post-ban. If inspectors know what to look for.
And don't discount the Feds (aka Trump) trying to stomp this out with a broad reading of Energy Act of 1975. This may not work, and I think federal oversight in this regard are idiotic, but the <Ctrl>left built this enforcement hammer. Expect Trump to swing it with glee.
I don’t understand how you can say electric is more efficient, especially in California, where electricity prices are almost the highest in the entire nation, at around $.30-$.40 per kilowatt hour. I asked Grok and it did a detailed analysis and here are the results
Conclusion
• Water Heaters: Gas water heaters (tankless: 46,632 BTU/, tank: 36,269 BTU/) outperform heat pump water heaters (36,393 BTU/) and electric resistance (10,803 BTU/). Tankless gas is the most cost-effective, though heat pump water heaters are competitive due to high COP (3.2) in Southern California’s warm climate.
• Furnaces/Heat Pumps: Gas furnaces (49,223 BTU/) deliver more BTU per dollar than heat pumps (36,393 BTU/), driven by high electricity costs ($0.30/kWh) despite heat pumps’ high COP (3.2).
• Recommendation: Gas systems (tankless water heaters, furnaces) are the most cost-effective for BTU per dollar in Southern California at $0.30/kWh and $1.93/therm. Heat pump water heaters are viable for their near-parity with gas tanks and environmental benefits. Heat pumps for space heating are less cost-effective but offer cooling, critical in Southern California, and may become competitive with higher gas prices (e.g., $2.50/therm) or rebates. Use local utility rates (e.g., https://www.sce.com, https://www.socalgas.com) and calculators like TECH Clean California (https://